Regarding silicone...

Discussion in 'Cinemaquette Chat Noir' started by Stephen, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    From the letter, regarding silicone versus resin.

    So with the Hulk looking pretty with his resin face under a hair piece, has silicone been a red herring all these years?
     
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  2. azurepred Chatty

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    Silicone is overrated in my opinion. Except for 1:1 scale custom pieces, I haven't seen anything manufactured that has impressed me. Very realistic human paint applications can be achieved on resin, translucent resin even better. I'm sure it would be much easier to not have to punch in hairs. I do like the hair piece on Hulk so far, I think more companies should do that.
     
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  3. Otto Verbal Diarrhoea

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    Never owned a statue or bust with translucent resin so I cant comment, looks nothing special just like resin in pic's so I just have to wait and see , with the silicone factory portraits that I own compared with resin, silicone wins all the way 100 times better imo.
    Hair has to be real or no contest at all ,after I got my first human CM sculpted hair does not interest me at all.
     
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  4. phil the sixth Charter Lounger

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    My biggest issue with silicone is that when using it you have to go all the way... meaning it's imperative to have glass eyes and silicone hands to keep the realism going... you just can't have resin hands and painted eyes...too much of a difference and these things are killing the realism.
    Painted eyes on statues are more than often 'dead' and it is no different on cinemaquettes.Raf inserted glass/acrylic eyes on his human cinemaquettes for a reason.
    Some of the shorter haircuts are an issue aswell cause you just don't have that realistic feeling/flow as on 1/1 heads.Haircuts like Aragorn,Sparrow and this Hulk f.e. are not such a problem.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  5. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    I for one prefer real hair . Although I gree to an extent with Phil about some hair not having the perfect flow , I actually like all the hair on the cms . As for silicone I prefer it 100 % the problem with the cm pieces is that they lack the likeness and yes the painted eyes , but I'm sure that is going to change , maybe not the painted eyes but the likeness . I hate sculpted hair . But here on this hulk I like the hair and it works IMO . But will a laced wig work for a normal human 1/3 scale . Maybe not . Unless it is from mohair which is thinner and could be styled easier , which I think is what they should use in the cms instead of human hair as it can be thick . Now as for resin and translucent , yes it's true there are painters out there than can paint an opeque piece very realistic but yet there is still a diffrence to a translucent resin . And translucent resin is the closest thing to silicone if not just as good . But the sculpted hair to me would ruin the realism on a translucent piece just like the obi lsf did . It was amazing but looked like a statue , now if that obi with the translucent resin would have had a laced hair and the glued on beard be pulled off that would have looked human IMO
     
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  6. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    Not an expert on painting opaque pieces like the likes of steve wang , or casey love . But here you can see the translucent resin and regular opaque resin difference .

    image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  7. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    For the most part I agree that the look and feel of silicone cannot be matched for realism, but then again the translucent resin picture Raf posted above looks inseparable from silicone.

    Phil I don't mind the painted eyes; they only look off on Indy to me. And I am not sure at this scale acrylic/glass are that much of an improvement. Silicone hands though - yes good point.

    I suppose the biggest issue with silicone has been the loss of fidelity in the transition from clay - something that doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with resin. Though I don't necessarily think that's a problem with silicone itself, merely a reflection on it's application by CM down the years.

    I suppose the question now is, given the quality of what we've seen recently from ECC/CM in terms of translucent resin and glued hair, is silicone simply a dead horse? When the argument for using it is simply to facilitate the use of hair, and then a resin piece turns up with real hair regardless, you have to wonder whether the writing should be on the wall.
     
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  8. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    It could indeed be that they're turning away from Silicone for the reasons given above (first and foremost cheaper and easier likeness transition). From what I've come to experience from both materials however, I will have to agree with Raf that TR doesn't look any better than regular resin unless you have a pro painter going to town on it. Hence silicone will at this point in time virtually always look much better under current factory conditions. That being said, we've seen some remarkable achievements from George's factories, plus new production techniques should make producing exact hair pieces much easier and/or take over at least some paint processes, so who knows?
     
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    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  9. Stephen Charter Lounger

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    Yes exactly - if the Hulk comes out looking great and collectors pay the asking price in droves, then is silicone the point of difference it once was, if it ever was at all?
     
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  10. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    Yes, the Hulk could be a catalyst in that regard. However, we've seen others try and fail with TR so even if they pull it off and decide to go forward with it, it is still far from the new industry standard or something. For the time being, I could see the argument over Silicone or TR turn into a matter of belief for high-end collectors.
    As for the question of whether Silicone was a major point of difference up until recently, then the answer is that of course it was because everyone out there tried to mimic it's major characteristics at lower cost. But as with most trendsetting materials, technological advancement will eventually catch up with it and make most of it's features available to the mass market. Maybe in a couple of years time, Silicone will be to the collectible market what Vinyl is to the music industry, as in: I'd like to think that it will still be around with it's trademark characteristics unlike regular resin pieces which will just be outdated at this point, more like a music tape.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  11. dfchang813 Smooth Conversationalist

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    Maybe times have changed but the translucent resin had to be scrapped for Obi-Wan because the paint applications done by the paintmaster were unable to be replicated at the Chinese factory despite multiple attempts and many years delay.

    Properly done by someone who really knows what he is doing and takes the proper time and attention, I do think translucent resin can be equivalent to silicone. However, currently, I don't believe that at the production level this is possible. Hence Sideshow's grand experiment has failed. The last 1/4 scale translucent resin piece was their World War II paratrooper and it had a mediocre paint job. Then the cancelled Obi-Wan.

    As you increase size to 1:1 scale, silicone's advantages become increasingly dominant. Properly painting at that scale is very difficult. The details really matter and any mistake damages the realism of the piece.

    I own several lifesize silicone pieces and the difference is profound when compared to their resin counterparts.

    I think Hulk is an ideal candidate for translucent resin and wig because the green color gives you quite a bit more margin for error and casting a body this size even with a silicone exterior over a resin core would be cost prohibitive.

    I think it'll look great and the price should be around 2k for what it is.
     
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  12. azurepred Chatty

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    Ecc got it done with the mib bust, so they've already proven they can handle it
     
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  13. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    True. The difference to standard resin on this one was barely noticeable due to conventional paint application.
     
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  14. Otto Verbal Diarrhoea

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    What about smaller 1/3 scale portraits with a goatee or 5 o'clock shadow ,wouldn't work on resin.
     
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  15. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    Good point, Otto.
     
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  16. Lars Keymaster Staff Member

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    In other news, I keep hearing that Chronicle will be doing a Delorean and CM a Marty in Silicone to go with it. Am I just making shit up? :lash:
     
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  17. rrjrstatueman Custom Daredevil

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    You better be making things up . Or I need to cancel my hot toys delorean
     
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  18. azurepred Chatty

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    Chronicle hasn't even confirmed they have a BTF license, let alone, making a Delorean.
     
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  19. Otto Verbal Diarrhoea

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    Maybe some people have inside information.
     
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  20. Enzucho Opionated

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    Omg! This would be the ultimate. In a heart beat I would own this. I am with raf. Canceling the hot toys stuff to buy Marty and the Delorean hopefully in 1/3 scale
     
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